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purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 1:14:11 PM
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davelinde
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I saw a quip in CE to the effect that "the purpose of government is to provide services"... and it got me thinking.
What do you think the purpose of government should be and why?
Three quotes have resonated with me...
"That government is best which governs least."
-- Thomas Paine
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have"
-- various attribution
"The power to tax is the power to destroy"
-- Daniel Webster or John Marshall
Looking at history I conclude that there are a lot of ways for big projects and worthwhile things to happen in society. Variously...
For profit enterprises
Church sponsored para-ministry
Monopoly businesses (regulated and unregulated)
Public/Private cooperation
Government agency
Maybe others?
I think the purpose of government is to govern. From the quotes I provided you can guess I tend conservative/minimalist. Still, I'm sure there are good arguments for (TEMPORARY AND RESTRAINED) expansion of government. Again, looking at history government has acted in times of war and economic crisis to intervene and even create lasting benefits to address the situation.
Pearl Harbor, 1929 Stock Crash, Great Depression, Cold War, 9/11, Mortgage Crisis all come to mind...
I also see foreign governments working multi-year plans that are shifting jobs globally - eg India and the IIT has been 50 years of progress towards providing a low cost tech labor force, Korea has taken ship-building over... etc.
The wish list of Americans is clear and growing... we want jobs (and once we have jobs we want better jobs), we want education, we want housing, transportation, healthcare, retirement income, national defense...
But I ramble - what do you want from government and why?
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 1:54:46 PM
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eaglelady11
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I think a government should maintain social order and uphold the laws. If a government does tax its citizens, then taxes should be used to provide services such as education, health and welfare, clean parks, protective services and government run agencies that provide aid for domestic or foreign tragedies.
Businesses and corporations should be regulated so they don't pull a Wall street greed and extort and ruin the middle-classed and poor. It would be so nice to have a check and balance in the system. but in real life, corporations are all for making money and using resources for profit rather than common good, which as Aristotle said in Politics, is what government action is about: common good also known as the Summum Bonum.
I do not agree with war. I would prefer mediation and negotiation, but some countries do not want to negotiate, they want power and will kill for it. Therefore, we have a right to protect ourselves. I do think we should have the choice of either public or private health care. and like I said, love the parks and nature.
Also to uphold the Constitution, not rework it.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 2:56:40 PM
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rcjames
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Establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 3:33:46 PM
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GodandGuns
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a strong military, leaders not having yellow running down their backs and man enough to face and enemy and beat them down.
one not trying to turn this country into a socialist state.
a govt that is for the people not for themselves.
a govt that sets salary caps on jobs. wow wouldnt that be nice. no complaining that one makes way more than i ever will.
a govt that says work or dont eat. get off your lazy butts and go to work. this economy is one thing but to just have babies and draw money while sitting around doing nothing is not what i see the country for.
deal drugs to kids, life in prison if not the death penalty. murder, for sure death penalty. rape or child molest? i will be banned for writing what should happen to those.
make prisoners work and not just work out and relax. i mean work farms and make items to sell. no work, no eat.
i wanna run for president. wow people wouldnt like me would they.
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 3:39:37 PM
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davelinde
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Yes, for sure maintaining the rule of law and justice is high on my list.
The converse question would be to look at governments I consider "failed". When there is no rule of law (localized "might makes right") and no justice (eg corruption where public resources are stolen by the few) I'd say that government is failing.
wrt to defense and war... this is a place where I think that ONLY the government is in a position to prosecute a war. I would NOT want a war to end up being at the discretion of private citizens.
Interestingly -- I have mixed feelings about things like state and national parks. On the one side - now that they are built, they are an asset for both tourism AND enjoyment of current and future generations. The costs are not outrageous and keeping the usage fees low is nice. On the other side... I would NOT have wanted to be one of the people who had their land confiscated to provide these parks.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 6:55:35 PM
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GodandGuns
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yes our govt owns car companies, now after the hospitals
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/9/2010 8:53:48 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
What do you think the purpose of government should be and why?
Which government?
The purpose of self-government: to glorify God by bearing fruit, as we pursue disciplined and productive vocations.
The purpose of family government: to provide for the health, education, and welfare of dependents (children, aged, etc) so that kids can grow up to be self-governing believers.
The purpose of church government: to administer the sacraments, and to proclaim God's mind for people in every walk of life. To instruct magistrates, and excommunicate the rebellious.
The purpose of civil government: to protect the community from those who would violate it, and offend God, by sinning against the lives, persons, properties, or families of community members.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 2:56:14 AM
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zamdad
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The purpose of government under the United States constitution is to provide for the common defense. Not much more. The federal government has grown too large and needs to be scaled back, way back.
All the entitlement programs begun by the federal government need to be repealed. Welfare? Let the churches and charitable organizations deal with the widows, orphans, and the poor. Perhaps then, those in the pew will get out of their seat and teach someone to fish instead of letting another government program hand them a fish.
Medical: Get the government out of the way, period. Let the free market dictate the price of medical coverage, treatment, procedures, etc.
Education: Vouchers have been talked about for years. Why are politicians afraid to let schools compete? To offer educational programs that will inspire parents to seek something better for their kids?
Frankly, the government has become the sugar daddy for us, it has become another god as even we, the church, look to the government to solve all our problems for us. Thus far, every social problem the government has set out to solve has only grown worse. They have marginalized us (the church. Through their schools, they have taught us to think inside their box, to solve problems programmatically just like the government.
How are WE (the church) going to make disciples of men when WE are pointing the poor to the nearest government office to get their handout of daily fish?
_____________________________
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 4:08:41 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Frankly, the government has become the sugar daddy for us, it has become another god as even we, the church, look to the government to solve all our problems for us.
We have been conditioned, largely by government schools, to think in pyramids. To think that the primary social organizing principle is a monolithic "the" government, with power, wealth, authority and influence concentrated towards the top. If only people like us could grab the levers and toggle switches of power, we could use this magnificent machine far more wisely than the current crop of clowns![1]
Step One is to purge the phrase "the government" from our vocabularies. There is no "the" government. We'll let the humanists continue to pretend that political power is the only power, while we clean their clocks on every front that really matters: Self government. Family government. Church government. As we serve the King, and experience His blessings on every sphere where we embrace our responsibilities/opportunities, our credibility and influence will skyrocket. Families that work, churches that work, and believers who work, will deliver the goods. Politicians will continue to deliver the bads.
The future belongs to the godly, the responsible. Those who think in terms of multiple spheres of government, and do what they can to claim each for the King.
Folks, when you pray "for kings, and those in authority," begin with the most important magistrates of civil government, the local jury. Then work your way down through progressively less important offices, until you finally pray for the least important civil leader of them all, the figurehead in the White House.
[1] This isn't a new fantasy. Eusebius viewed the rise of Constantine as a grand eschatological fulfillment, a vindication of the gospel. Now that our team is running the show, things will be different!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 10:31:37 AM
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davelinde
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From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
The purpose of government under the United States constitution is to provide for the common defense. Not much more....
Medical: Get the government out of the way, period. Let the free market dictate the price of medical coverage, treatment, procedures, etc.
Cool a Libertarian view contributed.
So for the free market approach to medicine... if the market determines that it can most profitably serve about 25% of the population (hypothetical here) is it OK for the rest to go without care or get minimal care (because full care is not affordable)? If the market offers risk sharing pools that cannot remain solvent - should the government step in and regulate?
BTW - there is an argument to be made that unless the government keeps enough citizens healthy they will be unable to maintain a military for defense. So in this model maybe it would be good for the government to provide basic health care for people up to a certain age so they can be used to fight if needed. If they determined you were too sick to every recover and fight, they could terminate your care at that point though, and let the free market decide what to do with you.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 12:52:05 PM
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zamdad
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I'm a registered republican, always have been. It's only been since the last election that I have come to realize that I am more libertarian in my views. As a product of public education, I was unaware that much of what our government has been doing is counter to the constitution. I am sick of the corrupt culture that exists in DC. I am sick of career politicians.
I think much of the cost of health insurance is a result of government involvement. Get them out of the way. Let the market dictate the price. Allow consumers to shop for insurance premiums in the same manner we already do for auto insurance. Let consumers deal directly with their doctors.
_____________________________
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 2:02:45 PM
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NotreDame
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The purpose of government is to establish order. The purpose of establishing order is to protect life, liberty, and property. Government should not redistribute the wealth. I am opposed to many if not all social welfare programs.
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I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 2:33:33 PM
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Dante_Alighieri
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quote:
We'll let the humanists continue to pretend that political power is the only power, while we clean their clocks on every front that really matters
...."Clean their clocks?"
quote:
Medical: Get the government out of the way, period. Let the free market dictate the price of medical coverage, treatment, procedures, etc.
And what of those who can't afford medical coverage? Or who goes bankrupt when a family member takes ill and they can't pay the medical bills?
Dante
_____________________________
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita mi ritrovai per una selva oscura ché la via diritta era smarrita.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 2:53:08 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,
Thanks
RC
And health care, don't forget health care. 
<<< Wins the academy award for "Gratuitous Annoyance of Fellow Christian"
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Dort, wo man Buecher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen." - Heinrich Heine
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 7:14:05 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
And what of those who can't afford medical coverage? Or who goes bankrupt when a family member takes ill and they can't pay the medical bills?
What if the government had never gotten involved in "social justice?" We are told in scripture that the poor will always be with us. Who'd be tending to the needy if the government got out of redistributing welath? Hmmm. What would the church be doing?
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A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 10:37:52 PM
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didymus101
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The purpose of all governments is scheming and violent self-preservation when it should be fully dedicated to social programs.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 10:57:11 PM
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Marcus.
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. - Declaration of Independence
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 11:22:18 PM
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KaptZ
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From: The swamps of Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. - Declaration of Independence
Doesn't it ever make you scratch your head to think all that was written by a guy who kept other human beings in bondage? 
Even though I admire him the irony is hard to swallow sometimes.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/10/2010 11:42:04 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 3001
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. - Declaration of Independence
Doesn't it ever make you scratch your head to think all that was written by a guy who kept other human beings in bondage?
Even though I admire him the irony is hard to swallow sometimes.
What is truly ironic is that he knew and admitted it was evil yet he didn't free them until his death. Maybe seeing what his own sin was doing to his slaves made him able to identify and express such beautiful thoughts and ideas. If only he could have taken that last step and released his slaves from bondage to share what he so eloquently expressed. 
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/11/2010 12:12:13 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101
The purpose of all governments is scheming and violent self-preservation when it should be fully dedicated to social programs.
Say what? Maybe in Europe or in the old Soviet Union. If the government is about tending to social programs, what good is the church?
quote:
Kaptz
Doesn't it ever make you scratch your head to think all that was written by a guy who kept other human beings in bondage?
It seems rather clear that many of the founding fathers were not in favor of slavery. They did not have the perspective of history we now have. Yet, they sought a way for us to have the perspective we have today.
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A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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RE: purpose of government? - 3/11/2010 9:30:57 PM
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KaptZ
Posts: 643
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
ORIGINAL: didymus101
The purpose of all governments is scheming and violent self-preservation when it should be fully dedicated to social programs.
Say what? Maybe in Europe or in the old Soviet Union. If the government is about tending to social programs, what good is the church?
Wow. So if the gov't was efficiently handling social programs for it's citizens the church would feel threatened??? I would think the church would want all the help it could get.
quote:
Kaptz
quote:
Doesn't it ever make you scratch your head to think all that was written by a guy who kept other human beings in bondage?
It seems rather clear that many of the founding fathers were not in favor of slavery. They did not have the perspective of history we now have. Yet, they sought a way for us to have the perspective we have today.
While I agree that the founders were men of their times it is still terribly sad that they could speak and write so eloquently about the freedom and worth of all men and yet slavery was condoned and openly promoted until the Civil War, almost 100 years later.
We were lucky to have such men to draw up documents that could be amended with time and experience but boy, the problems they could have prevented if they had just thought to free everyone while they were busy freeing themselves.
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